Talk:24: The Game
Revamp Proudhug, a while ago you told me that this page was being revamped so that instead of having episode numbers, the page would be orientated by Mission titles. Well, I'm about to start up my game file again, and would be willing to do the details. However, I'm not sure how to structure it. If someone could basically change the current table to how it will be, I can make pages for each of the missions as I reach them. SignorSimon 20:20, 13 May 2008 (UTC) : I've been thinking, and I don't understand why it would be better to split this article up into missions rather than hours. It sticks more like the other seasons of 24 if it's in hours, plus there might not be a lot to say for some missions if they are just the small, puzzle-solving ones. SignorSimon 17:02, 17 May 2008 (UTC) The Game isn't split up into hours, it's split up into missions. Each mission even conveniently has its own title! There's no such thing as "The Game 8:00am-9:00am." That title was just made up and doesn't exist anywhere. The mission titles do, however, exist, so let's use them. I explained this already on your talk page back in December. Creating an article for each mission also invites expansion. Each mission page can have a ton of useful info besides a mere synopsis, such as hints, walkthroughs, maps, lists of available weapons and items, enemies and allies, playable characters, easter eggs, bugs, or any other useful mission-specific information. It makes no sense to cram two or three unrelated missions onto one page just because they occurred in the same hour of the story. --Proudhug 01:41, 18 May 2008 (UTC) : Well, I'm coming along with this. I know it seems a bit diorganised at the minute with half of it in missions and half in hours but I added much more info to all the pages that already existed, then continued through the game and have almost finished it now. When I do there will be missions from episode 17-24. Once that is done I will go back and split eps 1-16 into missions, then put the new missions table onto the page for The Game! SignorSimon 08:15, 27 May 2008 (UTC) Made a template for appearances in The Game. Here it is: --Pyramidhead 21:03, 2 May 2007 (UTC) Naming I'm proposing a move of this article to The Game. The current name doesn't fit with the rest of the style. I don't especially like it, but it seems others do and I want things to be uniform. I post this here knowing it will mean a large number of pages link to the redirect, and that people might want to start linking to what will be the new page. - Xtreme680 00:48, 26 June 2006 (UTC) : I actually had moved it there a while ago but it got moved back. My rationale is that everything could be preceeded by "24:" so it's not necessary. This is explained in the Manual of Style too, of course. --Proudhug 08:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC) ::I say we move it, work on fixing the links, and protect it from being moved, while still allowing editing. It would be what the manuel of style says is what the style is. - Xtreme680 17:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC) I like having the 24 prefix before things that have it. Yeah, "in theory" everything has the prefix. But in reality, everything does not. It's part of the title, and I don't see why it should be trunkated. Besides, having pages called things like "The Game" and "The Postmortem" and "The Official Magazine" just sounds dumb. --StBacchus 01:16, 10 August 2006 (UTC) : Why does it sound dumb? This is a website about 24. There's never going to be an article about "Lost: The Official Magazine" or "The Godfather: The Game". --Proudhug 04:15, 10 August 2006 (UTC) ::There isn't just "The Game," there are a couple of games. There are a couple of unofficial guides, too. And like I said before, it's part of the title. Not everything has it. There's no need to remove it. --StBacchus 02:01, 12 August 2006 (UTC) Appearances Any reason why we shouldn't include the appearance box for characters in 24: The Game? -WarthogDemon 19:52, 25 June 2006 (UTC) :We haven't really decided if we want to have one large page for it, or individual hour guides, so most of the hours guides aren't written. The more I think about it, the better it sounds to just have a huge storyline page or something, and not individual episodes. - Xtreme680 20:01, 25 June 2006 (UTC) :: I for sure don't believe we need individual hour articles for The Game. I figure that, since the Missions are actually named, that's the best way to split it up. And either way, I don't think we need an appearances box for anything other than the seasons of the show. --Proudhug 21:54, 25 June 2006 (UTC) :::I think that maybe we should go for the individual episodes. The summary of Jack alone is pretty big. Plus there are lots of secondary characters and places such as Phillips (The Game). I could understand having a basic summary with general information on the page, but people like Phillips would only get a brief mention in an entire chunk of text. And while I haven't gotten to them yet, there are also several other minor character pages from 24: The Game that I'll be putting up sometime soon. I could also work on each episode guide and make them bigger; I'm sure I can make each hour 3 paragraphs long at least. I'd love to work on that if I could. There's quite a bit of details in the cutscenes that haven't been put in yet. -WarthogDemon 17:46, 19 July 2006 (UTC) Photos for 24:The Game Hello gamers... I don't have Playstation and I'll probably never play the game, so I've felt bad that I have nothing to contribute to this area of the Wiki. I do, however, have a link for photos in case any of you are looking for a screenshot or a character or action sequence and need to get an image... twentyfouronline.comhas alot of photos that look like they'd be useful over here. It's up to you all, of course, to decide if you want/need any of them. -Kapoli 02:08, 14 June 2006 (UTC) : Excellent Kapoli, thanks! This page is desperately in need of screenshots. --Proudhug 02:13, 14 June 2006 (UTC) "Episodes" I don't see the need to have separate articles for each hour of the game. I'll delete them unless someone puts up a good argument for their existence. --Proudhug 01:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC) The Game has just an intense storyline as any season of 24. I highly suggest we give it more credit on the canon list. This article could be cleaned up and we need to do a lot more work on the game and its pages, but it could be an excellent part of the site. - Xtreme680 : I'm not sure what exactly you're saying. Is this a vote to keep the individual "episode" pages? The TV show is presented as 24 separate items (episodes), while The Game is presented as one item. If we separate The Game into 24 different articles, should we not do the same for the novels and comics? That would seem silly. --Proudhug 16:10, 12 April 2006 (UTC) :: Well obviously not comics since some of the pages on here then would only be a sentance long in length. But why not the books? It might be a little tedious but it could be done. -WarthogDemon 17:49, 19 July 2006 (UTC) Well, I guess it's acceptable to delete the pages as long as we continue to work on this page and move some of the content from the episode pages onto the main page. I'm just saying that we've been ignoring this article when really it's one of the more important pieces of canon that we have, considering it has the same actors, same scripwriters, and same score writers. Furthermore, lots of fans don't play videogames and some don't have a Playstation 2. The main article just needs to be more detailed as far as the plot of the game, including describing the episodes of the game. If you're telling me it's OK to make a really long, detailed article about the events of the game I'll get working on that, but its going to take some time. - Xtreme680 : Oh for sure it needs work. So do the novels and comics. I never thought it was being ignored... there's just so much work on MANY things that hasn't been done yet, not just The Game. Go ahead and begin work on the article. If it winds up being way too long, we can then consider splitting it up. --Proudhug 21:53, 12 April 2006 (UTC) : One idea might be to create one separate article detailing the plot/missions of The Game. --Proudhug 01:19, 15 April 2006 (UTC) That will still be insanely long, and look crappy. - Xtreme680 : I'm just thinking that what's now in progress to be on the main page might wind up pretty long, so it might deserve its own page. --Proudhug 02:57, 15 April 2006 (UTC) : Maybe we should create a box with a summary of the episodes like on the season pages. --24 Administration 10:40, 19 April 2006 (UTC) :: We could do something like that, but I don't think we have any users that can take pictures of the game, which is what makes those pages look so awesome. - Xtreme680 "Season bar" :Why in god's name is it in this article? --Tuntis 03:21, 7 April 2006 (PDT) :: I've changed it to a timeline browser and added it to the articles for every "Day". --Proudhug 01:23, 10 April 2006 (UTC) Episode Grid I have started an episode grid and have found some pictures for it. I will finish it soon. --24 Administration 19:17, 29 April 2006 (UTC) ::Finished! --24 Administration 14:44, 30 April 2006 (UTC) "Terrorist Organization" What is the name of Madsen's terrorist organization? Does it have an ideology?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by on 21:43, 6 June 2008 : I don't know the name of his group, but I doubt it has one. Madsen's group takes orders from Max, and so the group seems more like a "mercenary force" than a "terrorist group" that you'd expect to have a name. I suppose instead of an ideology it has a bottom line, which would be to earn a fat paycheck. I could be wrong, however, so if someone knows anything else please chime in. – Blue Rook 03:46, 7 June 2008 (UTC)talk :: I'm pretty sure you've hit the nail on the head there, Rook. SignorSimon 07:59, 7 June 2008 (UTC) The Game continuity The italicized post below is reproduced from Category talk:Masterminds, it has been moved here because it does not relate to the original discussion location: :What you're saying is like saying you think a work is terrible but you dn't hate it. It's called an oxymoron. Saying The Game isn't in the same continuity of the show but in one of its own is not only wrong but contradictory. You haven't even played the game, you only know what you read about, and you don't think the Game is canon based on vague speculation. I know it's canon based on evidence I can back up, not "I think" opinions. --ASHPD24 23:19, October 2, 2011 (UTC) I never played Playstation games, true. But saying I needed to have played the Game to have knowledge about it is like saying I need to climb K2 "to know it's difficult" or to actually shoot heroin "to know it feels good" or I must touch an open flame "to know fire will hurt" or to read Forsyth's The Jackal to "learn any facts about the title character". It's quite possible to learn about stuff without actually doing the activity. To claim otherwise is madness. One difficulty with your post is that you're conflating my opinions about the novels & comics with The Game. Everyone knows I'm not a fan of the novels and comics. But I barely have any opinions about the Game. What I'm focusing on are the factual contradictions which are free from any kind of opinions. The contradiction in question is: Game Fact: Max gets shot to death at the end of the Game, whereas, TV Show Fact: Max gets arrested. If one thinks there are any opinions involved in pointing out this factual contradiction, one is wrong. We know only that Max was the man behind the attempt on Palmer's life because we saw him on the phone with Mandy, ordering her to proceed; she then checked in with him afterward. (Trepkos and his unnamed partner knew nothing of this.) I have just taken the time to explain in factual, non-opinionated detail why they are contradictory continuities. Without any vague speculation. If you would, please likewise explain in factual, non-opinionated detail why you say I am "not only wrong but contradictory" so that there can be a civil discussion. If you choose not to, then it will be clear to everyone that an actual discussion is not your goal here, it is only to be inflammatory. Also, I promise I won't misquote you, and I expect you will not misquote me again. I certainly did not use the phrase "I think" in my prior post, and I didn't express any antipathy about The Game with opinions. Don't put words in quotes unless the person said precisely that. 05:21, October 3, 2011 (UTC) Hold on a second, there. I'm going to have to stop you. At no point does anyone ever say "Max was arrested." The actual quote is "The man behind the attempt on your life was arrested" (paraphrased). Was at that point Max the only one who knew of this? Yes. Is it plausible that Max later told Trepkos and he took the fall for it? Yes. Since it's never directly confirmed that Max was indeed the one who solely took the blame for it, it can't be just said that the game and the series aren't canon to each other. And since this is all wild speculation, it proves nada. And if you're still concerned about events in the game not being referenced later in the series, I have an explanation for that as well. --ASHPD24 05:35, October 3, 2011 (UTC) : That's where we differ. Anything is possible if you wish to inject that level of speculation. When it comes to fiction it should be Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is the correct one. Max is behind Mandy's attack, and the man behind the attack is arrested, therefore Max is arrested. 06:02, October 3, 2011 (UTC) : But then there's the possibility that since Max was wearing a bulletproof vest he indeed was taken alive, though I'm not sure how much I agree with that assessment. And while in most cases I would agree with you about the simplest explanation being the right one, it's unfortunately not that simple in this case. Yes, it was clear that Max was one of the key players in the plot. However, it's also explicitly clear that Trepkos is about on the same level as Max. He doesn't say "We are unhappy" or "I am unhappy" to Kingsley, perhaps because Kingsley already knew that. And yes, Max didn't clue Trepkos in on his assassination attempt, but that's what terrorists do. They only share information among their cell so as to protect the other cells in case one of them is captured. Max was covering his bases here. He wanted to make sure that if it led back to Trepkos, then he could take the fall instead, which is very likely what happened. So, in reality, there's very strong evidence which makes your theory true, in that Max was actually just injured and was arrested, but makes the game still canon in the series universe. --ASHPD24 06:09, October 3, 2011 (UTC) Agreeing to disagree is a civil conclusion and I'm glad we can reach a point like this. Without trying to prolong anything, I should say that our interpretations of Trepkos's first scene differ just enough to reach very different conclusions. We both agree that Trepkos was superior to Kingsley, and from the dialogue we know that Trepkos before Day 2 had advised Max not to hire Kingsley for the Los Angeles plot... therefore making Trepkos more senior than Kingsley in the plot's chronology too. However, we differ regarding our thoughts on the relationship between Trepkos and Max. After careful consideration, the way I'm reading it is: Max is altogether superior to Trepkos. Not only did he run the Mandy operation on his own, but Trepkos's first scene indicates to me that Kinglsey was not worried about Trepkos's opinion, but Max's. In fact both men were worried about Max. And Trepkos was not representing himself, but Max. In summary, my goal isn't to downplay Trepkos in any way, but to read the context of the scenes and dialogue to situate him in his most appropriate place: between Kingsley and Max. 06:29, October 3, 2011 (UTC) Bodycount What is the bodycount based on? As this is an interactive game, surely the bodycount differs for different players?--Acer4666 (talk) 21:11, October 29, 2012 (UTC) :It shouldn't since the set amount of enemies don't differ and it's not a free-roaming/RPG/online game nor a War game (i.e. Call of Duty) where it could vary based on the player's own willingness to roam around and kill extra enemies. These numbers are from me studying for hours on end the YouTube video walkthroughs. Like any video game tally, numbers were based on: A.) AI was capable of being killed. B.) AI character HAD to be killed in order to progress. C.) AI character (i.e. Max) was killed in the cinematics by one of the characters. D.) I had a document open and was recording this as I watched each segment. And again, I have kills for the comic books recorded (haven't finished the books yet) so where should I record those?--Gunman6 (talk) 04:27, October 30, 2012 (UTC) * From your camera and upload them on your computer. That's my suggestion. BattleshipMan (talk) 17:41, October 30, 2012 (UTC) I apologize for being vague but I meant where should I post the tallies? I have the photos from a PDF download I got online.--Gunman6 (talk) 17:58, October 30, 2012 (UTC) :OK, so you have numbers for those different categories? Can we change what's on the page to: In cut-scenes Jack Bauer killes x number of people, in order to complete the game you need to kill at least y people in the gameplay sections, and it's possible to kill a total of z people throughout?--Acer4666 (talk) 05:13, October 31, 2012 (UTC) Sorry, I include the kills of the game as one whole entity, because otherwise it just gets plain silly in my opinion. I meant could we make pages for deaths sorted by the media it's portrayed in (show, movie, comics, novels, the game)? Or list all of Bauer's kills on that current page and arrange the category by that media. Going back to the game, I understand that we're a wikia but I would just say it is possible to kill this many and plus it would seem a tad inconsistent when Bauer, Kim and the three other villains accomplish kills in the segments and for Bauer it's especially silly considering only three of them are in cinematics while other times there's moments like Call of Duty where you have an interactive cinematic. Again, this might make sense if it was one of the war games I mentioned or a free-roaming game like Mercenaries, Dead to Rights, Saint's Row and/or GTA, where you can make choices or have sandbox/tournaments/non-canon/up in the air type decision-making. ::This is just a set amount of enemies and it would most likely save time this way. Plus, given the popularity of the game, it would probably be best to just list "approximate amounts of x kills" as oppose to break it down like the TV show charts of various moments (betrayal, KOs, kills by Bauer, CTU clearance, bosses of districts, presidential decision making, etc.) where more hours would be rewarded based on more people likely having seen it. I used to be on Allouttabubblegum.com and would've joined moviebodycounts. I quit after awhile since the moderators were not friendly but the story is that I have the ability to count sound kills and no knock-outs or car crashes by Bauer in the game were counted since there's no way to confirm that. ::Anyone that was a potential/killable enemy or was capable of being killed was counted and like any videogame, the bodycounts are insanely high and ironically larger than any season of this TV show. I'm still tallying the Punisher (2005) game and X-Files: Fight the Future and those are also incredibly higher. Videogames have limits but boy do they break so many barriers. I say take this with a grain of salt, I wouldn't do it for nothing and I did this all in one day. --Gunman6 (talk) 05:33, October 31, 2012 (UTC) ::: I have never played The Game, but I thought it might be helpful to mention something I recall Proudhug mentioning once: if you hang around on levels, enemies keep coming and you can have a different body count each time you play a level. Assuming I'm remembering his comment right, and assuming it is correct, how do we know the YouTube videos that were used had only the minimum number of kills necessary to advance to the next Mission? 06:29, November 5, 2012 (UTC) :Can't answer that question but I can say that I shall word it easier by saying "approximate" so as to not unintentionally mislead or sound hokey. The person playing the game I would say did a solid job and only died once and the only time he failed the most seemed to be on the difficult driving missions. When he died as Jack, the mission resumed with next-to-no change.--Gunman6 (talk) 07:39, November 5, 2012 (UTC) ::I've removed this as the number of people you kill absolutely depends on how you play the game. For reference, the numbers calculated by Gunman6 based on watching one youtube run-through of the game are here: * Jack Bauer kills 496 total terrorists (nearly doubled from his total killing spree for the entire eight days). * Tony Almeida kills 149 terrorists throughout the game. * Chase Edmunds kills 115 terrorists throughout the game. * Michelle Dessler kills 25 terrorists in her brief missions at the CTU Los Angeles takeover. * Kim Bauer kills 1 of the armed kidnappers, in one of the cinematics later in the game, while Bauer takes out another hostage-taker. * Peter Madsen kills 3 security guards, Sid Wilson and Sean Walker. * Mandy murders James Radford. * Joseph Sin-Chung kills 1 CTU TAC Team Officer. * James Radford kills a civilian threatening him. ::However, this info does not belong on the page. Possibly a list of deaths in just the cinematic cut-scenes, or more detailed info about how many people it's possible to kill, but these numbers are really arbitrary and without context--Acer4666 (talk) 17:15, December 30, 2015 (UTC) Radford's bodyguard :There's a bodyguard that's part of James Radford's limo escort and who has dialogue. Did anyone catch a name for this character? --Gunman6 (talk) 08:43, May 26, 2014 (UTC) Where are the voice actors? Is there a reason why all the voice actors are missing from this article? It seems like such a serious omission that I'm inclined to guess there was a specific reason for it, as opposed to an oversight after all these years. While on the topic of voice actors, does anyone have any insight about voice actor Eugene Kim and/or the character Kwan Kim he apparently provided the voice for? 20:47, December 28, 2015 (UTC) :I've re-done the character listings to be more like an episode page, so added credits with voice actors. Eugene Kim I believe has just been copied straight from imdb; see the talk page, but I don't know who Kwan Kim is meant to be in the game and Eugene Kim is not on the game's credits. With these voice actors its hard to know who plays who--Acer4666 (talk) 17:34, December 30, 2015 (UTC) ::That's a good idea to add voice actor credits in that game, Acer. I don't really know where the name Kwan Kim comes in and such. BattleshipMan (talk) 19:18, December 30, 2015 (UTC) I checked something out. It seems one of the voice actresses, Donna Bullock, was on Air Force One as the Deputy Press Secretary as you can see it on her IMDb link. Antagonists page Hey guys. I just started playing this game today. When I beat it (which I estimate will be 2-5 days from now), would you be okay with me creating a page called "The Game Antagonists"? (It would be under the "See Also" sections of all the other "Day X antagonists" pages). I think this'd be a good idea as it would contextualize the villains of this game. Would you guys be okay with this? Want some approval before I'd begin it.--SuperbowserX (talk) 23:13, February 25, 2016 (UTC)